Thought provoking. I believe I’m more spiritual than religious. I heard in a meeting once: Religion is for people who don’t want to go to hell; spirituality is for those who’ve already been there. 🙏
I loved your turn of phrase- 'religious report card'. I'm going to borrow that! So often, when I tell people that I'm a writer, they ask what I write about. When I tell them my focus, their faces fall. It is as if they expect me to hand over the report card with a big red F on it. It's such a heartbreaking experience that I often dance around my area of focus rather than be direct. I'm going to ponder how your phrase might help my future conversations. Thanks!
Feel free to use it and let me know how it goes! To me it's similar to the line you wrote yesterday, that resonated "there are no spiritual trophies!" And I am all too familiar with the falling faces after announcing our vocation....
Great question! I attribute their responses to much of the baggage that comes with religion and the problematic issues it can bring for many. A post for another day!
Feb 8·edited Feb 8Liked by Christine Vaughan Davies
'“Religion” comes with a lot of baggage. It can be tied to the complexities of one’s upbringing, institutional harm and potential toxicity, just to name a few problematic dynamics.'
Christine, this is sad and so true. And the more that's unearthed about behind the scenes abuse of power, the more people are turned off by the very communities that could have given them life and hope.
Yes, that is something that originally surprised me, how many stories of religious abuse I hear in the hospital. Working on how to share some of those here delicately, or at least help remind people how widespread it really is.
As a chaplain, you get to witness a fascinating spectrum of individuals experiencing extraordinary intimacy with their ultimate concerns. Truly a vantage to treasure.
Ya got me thinkin’- Each religion, as it arises, develops dogma based around the collective’s ultimate concern. Regional and local variations and amendments are reflective of that subset’s variance in ultimate concern. Time introduces cultural shifts and natural events that further inform the direction of a dogma’s malleability.
I require an absurd amount of malleability, perhaps as a trauma response (see Tina’s comment), but also as an insatiable explorer. So I became a spiritual traveler with a knapsack of various collected religious aspects, listening to the birdsong of collective truths, starting my campfires with the nurtured embers of my ultimate concerns.
You are on to something with the time shifts for sure, as some of our societal ultimate concerns evolve over time. I love your last few lines describing your path as a spiritual traveler! Pure poetry!
As for the trauma piece, you are definitely not alone in that and I'm working on a post that further elucidates some of the baggage we have from institutional religion as I hear those stories all.the.time in the hospital. So much to unpack!
Christine, this is a great essay! I agree that there is quite some confusion out there about the terms spiritual vs. Religious but I do like the way you write about them and I also prefer your working descriptions to the academic one! I happen to have written some on ultimate concern, namely how Irvin Yalom has incorporated this rather theological concept into his Existential Therapy approach. He btw got it from Tillich and Tillich got it from Kierkegaard. I love Tillichs descriptions of ultimate concerns as “what concerns us ultimately.” That is exactly what you explored with your patient. And I am so glad you did! What a fruitful conversation and what consolation you offered her by stepping away from an overly religious frame work and instead diving into the existential situation before you. I love to hear your case stories, they hold so much truth and wisdom. It is, as Kierkegaard has it, where existence itself becomes the teacher and we are all learners. So thank you for this great inspiration!
Oh my goodness, I didn't know that Tillich got it from Kierkegaard and Yalom also used it! We are all just plagiarizing at this point 😂 or standing on the shoulders of others! I'd love to read what you wrote, is it on your substack or one of your academic papers? And I totally agree with K re: existential learning!
My understanding of spirituality these days: seeing things as they are (vs. how I sometimes imagine them to be). On religion: people who have spiritual breakthroughs (seeing something true about life/the world that they had previously missed) often want to share their experience with others. But how do you share such a thing? Through stories, literature, and practices that might replicate the experience for others. And that’s how we get religion.
That is funny. As spirit is the proper term for our being body soul spirit, isn’t it? For Kierkegaard spirit is the self. The self that relates to itself, to others and to God. Even the non religious or non spiritual have all three relations. As non relating is also a way of relating, isn’t it? You describe a beautiful way to invite your clients into a spirited conversation about their threefold relation. Thank you for doing God’s work!
I’ve never heard the term “ultimate concerns” and I really like that. People do want to convey their ultimate concerns. I’ve seen that in my work as a social worker for sure. Thanks for giving some new language to this conversation!
Yes and so much spirituality work to be done in SW! (that's where I started out) PS - I listened to your podcast for the first time today (the convo with your friend Andrea) and loved it!
Thought provoking. I believe I’m more spiritual than religious. I heard in a meeting once: Religion is for people who don’t want to go to hell; spirituality is for those who’ve already been there. 🙏
Ohh I never heard that saying before, how great!
I like that!
This is a very helpful piece! Thank you. As you might guess, I'm both/and.
Yes, me too! Thanks so much for reading and sharing!
I loved your turn of phrase- 'religious report card'. I'm going to borrow that! So often, when I tell people that I'm a writer, they ask what I write about. When I tell them my focus, their faces fall. It is as if they expect me to hand over the report card with a big red F on it. It's such a heartbreaking experience that I often dance around my area of focus rather than be direct. I'm going to ponder how your phrase might help my future conversations. Thanks!
Feel free to use it and let me know how it goes! To me it's similar to the line you wrote yesterday, that resonated "there are no spiritual trophies!" And I am all too familiar with the falling faces after announcing our vocation....
Oh what has to change so that more faces light up when they hear the direction our soul has taken us?
Great question! I attribute their responses to much of the baggage that comes with religion and the problematic issues it can bring for many. A post for another day!
'“Religion” comes with a lot of baggage. It can be tied to the complexities of one’s upbringing, institutional harm and potential toxicity, just to name a few problematic dynamics.'
Christine, this is sad and so true. And the more that's unearthed about behind the scenes abuse of power, the more people are turned off by the very communities that could have given them life and hope.
Yes, that is something that originally surprised me, how many stories of religious abuse I hear in the hospital. Working on how to share some of those here delicately, or at least help remind people how widespread it really is.
As a chaplain, you get to witness a fascinating spectrum of individuals experiencing extraordinary intimacy with their ultimate concerns. Truly a vantage to treasure.
Ya got me thinkin’- Each religion, as it arises, develops dogma based around the collective’s ultimate concern. Regional and local variations and amendments are reflective of that subset’s variance in ultimate concern. Time introduces cultural shifts and natural events that further inform the direction of a dogma’s malleability.
I require an absurd amount of malleability, perhaps as a trauma response (see Tina’s comment), but also as an insatiable explorer. So I became a spiritual traveler with a knapsack of various collected religious aspects, listening to the birdsong of collective truths, starting my campfires with the nurtured embers of my ultimate concerns.
You are on to something with the time shifts for sure, as some of our societal ultimate concerns evolve over time. I love your last few lines describing your path as a spiritual traveler! Pure poetry!
As for the trauma piece, you are definitely not alone in that and I'm working on a post that further elucidates some of the baggage we have from institutional religion as I hear those stories all.the.time in the hospital. So much to unpack!
Christine, this is a great essay! I agree that there is quite some confusion out there about the terms spiritual vs. Religious but I do like the way you write about them and I also prefer your working descriptions to the academic one! I happen to have written some on ultimate concern, namely how Irvin Yalom has incorporated this rather theological concept into his Existential Therapy approach. He btw got it from Tillich and Tillich got it from Kierkegaard. I love Tillichs descriptions of ultimate concerns as “what concerns us ultimately.” That is exactly what you explored with your patient. And I am so glad you did! What a fruitful conversation and what consolation you offered her by stepping away from an overly religious frame work and instead diving into the existential situation before you. I love to hear your case stories, they hold so much truth and wisdom. It is, as Kierkegaard has it, where existence itself becomes the teacher and we are all learners. So thank you for this great inspiration!
Oh my goodness, I didn't know that Tillich got it from Kierkegaard and Yalom also used it! We are all just plagiarizing at this point 😂 or standing on the shoulders of others! I'd love to read what you wrote, is it on your substack or one of your academic papers? And I totally agree with K re: existential learning!
My understanding of spirituality these days: seeing things as they are (vs. how I sometimes imagine them to be). On religion: people who have spiritual breakthroughs (seeing something true about life/the world that they had previously missed) often want to share their experience with others. But how do you share such a thing? Through stories, literature, and practices that might replicate the experience for others. And that’s how we get religion.
Oh I like those definitions! Thanks for sharing them here for all to read and learn from.
How it is with someone’s spirit. Love that!
Some people have taken offense to my using that term (maybe it is too similar to Holy Spirit for some?!) but I think it can open the conversation.
That is funny. As spirit is the proper term for our being body soul spirit, isn’t it? For Kierkegaard spirit is the self. The self that relates to itself, to others and to God. Even the non religious or non spiritual have all three relations. As non relating is also a way of relating, isn’t it? You describe a beautiful way to invite your clients into a spirited conversation about their threefold relation. Thank you for doing God’s work!
I’ve never heard the term “ultimate concerns” and I really like that. People do want to convey their ultimate concerns. I’ve seen that in my work as a social worker for sure. Thanks for giving some new language to this conversation!
Yes and so much spirituality work to be done in SW! (that's where I started out) PS - I listened to your podcast for the first time today (the convo with your friend Andrea) and loved it!
Thanks for listening!!!!
Thanks so much for reading and sharing!